Poll

I am not playing the 1vs1 ladder because..

I don’t like 1vs1
3 (25%)
I play only GOW
0 (0%)
I will play, just did not get the time yet
2 (16.7%)
I am playing the ladder
3 (25%)
Other reason
4 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Author Topic: LADDER ON - Beta season  (Read 6426 times)

Offline Dudakurten

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LADDER ON - Beta season
« on: November 26, 2024, 02:45:39 PM »
Dear all,

Returning an old project (all credit to Mistral), lets launch a new ladder, beta season.
The idea is a short season to improve the content, fix bugs if any and to get players familiar with this mode.

Prizes (symbolic)

#1 USD 20.00
#2 USD 15.00
#3 USD 10.00

Obs: PayPal only

Duration

It will finish by 05 January 2025 , 09:00 CET.

How it works?

There is a map pack with 7 maps, that when someone host it will be sort it as a random.
Ranking is ELO based (like the MMR). This means you can play ANY player and it will count. Of course if you beat someone with less points than you, the gain will be lower.

Where is the ranking?

It will be updated here: https://ladder.war2.ru/index_mist.php
Is almost real-time with around 1-2 hours delay to be updated in there.

How to have the game counted?

Any player can simply host a game from map Random/random.pud in melee mode (host vs player2   player3 spot for obs)
other settings not matter because they will be set to map default anyways.

MAP POOL and settings included in the random system


Bridge to Bridge Combat BNE - high resources



Garden of War classic high resources




Gold Separates East West medium resources




Mine in the Center BNE high resources



Murky River BNE low resources



« Last Edit: November 28, 2024, 03:49:07 PM by Dudakurten »

Offline Dudakurten

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2024, 02:48:24 PM »
Looking forward please would like your feedback:

(i) Questions? Bugs?

(ii) Different resources gameplay? Should stick to high resources only?

(iii) One peon mode only? Or a bit mixed like was done on this season?

(iv) More maps ? Less maps?

Thanks, lets build something guys. You can blame me too of course.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2024, 03:27:03 PM by Dudakurten »

Offline Theboy

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2024, 03:08:43 PM »
Gogogogogogo

Offline Shotgun

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2024, 05:19:25 PM »
The ladder doesnt even update lol

Offline Dudakurten

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2024, 05:50:28 PM »
It’s the myst ladder menu. Is not the regular ladder.
Please let me know if you did any game that didn’t show in the list.

Offline Dudakurten

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2024, 01:17:00 AM »
Just to clarify , all those maps including the settings are automatically included in the random map system. You don’t need to do anything , just host the random.pud map from your random folder.

Offline Nox

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2024, 06:33:28 AM »
I know peoples have tendacy to think i hate when i give my opinion because im always honnest and contreversal, but there no hate here.

Just opinion that i think will bring more interess for peoples.

1: If we make a new ladder, remove the actual ladder first, i know some peoples want to keep this ladder for their bragging rights, but no one cares, at the end its just too complicated to have 2 ladder at the same time, even if one dosent work, just remove it.

2: Im all in with the ramdon map, i think in general peoples would like this, the only problem here, is, you throw us this maps like that the day 1 and you tell us here the ladder.. Before throwing maps that peoples dont know, you must let us know the map in advance before the ladder start, so peoples can pratice those maps before the ladder start. No one is interess to play a ladder if they dont even know the map yet, its like learning the map at same time of doing the ladder, it mean nothing at this point, so before season start, it would be better to present us the map pool selection. Here my idea, when a new season start, release 2x 7 map selection, one for the actual ladder, but also one for the future next season.. So peoples can play the ladder but they also can pratice the next season in normal games and learn the map before new season release.. If you dont want to do that way, release them at least 2 week befores the next season start.

3: Like i said, im all in with the random maps, but right now and especially for this season, i think you should just let peoples take whatever map they want, server is not really strong right now, and i think we must make sure peoples play the map they want for the moment, later when we will be ready and more peoples play the ladder we will switch for random if its required.

4: Random or low medium ressources is not a priority at all, i dont think peoples want to play these ressources at all, it's like water map, its a minority, and the majority dont want to be annoy by it, you should just remove these ressources period, if peoples want to play low or medium or whatever they will do it themself in a aggrement, but in general, everything should be high.

5: It's nice to show us the maps with images like you just did, but let's be honnest, we dont see anything bro, try to figure a way to make these maps images bigger and without a tag in middle of it, the goal of the images is to see the images properly so we can learn them, if we dont see nothing, there no reason to post it at all in that case.

6: Money is always a great prize, but the ultimate prize for everyone are the icons, you guys must work on something to give peoples some rewards other then money, if i was you, i would remove everyone master and grand master tag and legend tag. At the end of every season i will give back these icon to the 10 first position.

Number 1: Legend.
Number 2, 3, 4, 5, Grand Master.
Number 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, Master.

And at the end of every season you re-organize the icons to their new proper owners.

I know you guys are stick to keep everything the server did in the last 20 years, but its actually the reason why peoples dont cares about this game, because when they came here and they see rewards are stock in the past, they dont feel like there any rewards for them anymore.

If someone is immature and mad at the point that he think an icon belong for him forever, then just too bad go play something else.

This server should not be taken in hostage by a bunch of ego maniak who think they deserve an icons for ever because they think they are neo in the matrix.


At the end thanks for the work and effort, but i think it still need some work and organization, still thanks.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2024, 06:56:09 AM by Nox »
Mr.120apm aka U8! Best player of the world losing 4v3 against Phillip5256.

Offline Dudakurten

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2024, 06:45:55 AM »
Hey Eq thanks for your feedback.

To be honest is exactly what we need here, a serious constructive discussion. You disclosed several important points.

I agree with some of them.

Let’s heard from more people to see if we can find a direction that make the majority enjoy this competitive game mode and use this BETA / short season for adjustments.

Offline Nox

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2024, 08:46:14 AM »
Np, i just try it, but When i create for peoples and i put myself obs, i just see 1 player only for some reason.

Also PolandBB cant host for some reason, he always drop, but he can join.

Try to talk with him if you got time, thanks.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2024, 09:26:06 AM by Nox »
Mr.120apm aka U8! Best player of the world losing 4v3 against Phillip5256.

Offline Dudakurten

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2024, 08:50:20 AM »
Hmm what I understood is should be always that

Spot 1 player
Spot 2 player
spot 3 obs

Thanks for testing . I will reach him and mistral

Offline Nox

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2024, 08:52:04 AM »
Hmm what I understood is should be always that

Spot 1 player
Spot 2 player
spot 3 obs

Thanks for testing . I will reach him and mistral

Yeah its what i think too.

Another thing i must say, i try to make peoples play, and here the comments i got from now.

Bedibinx say he dont want to be force to play random, shotgun said map are bads.

And i think both of these affirmations goes togheter.

I think peoples will be willing to play random if all the maps are good, but it feel pretty bad when you must play a game and the map is really really bad, it just feel like you dont want to play the ladder at all.

Like right now, there one good map ( old gow ) there 4 decent, and there 2 totally horrible that mostly everyone will be annoy with, Borean thundra and gow appocalypse.

The only decent in the new maps is Hexed valley and even there its a borring one, decent, but borring.

I think appocalypse gow could be fun, i like the idea, but its just not work properly, the idea is great, the result not that much.

Borean thundra is just a real nightmare, these little paths everywhere just make the game pretty annoying, must avoid all these kind of maps at all cost.

I know i seem a little bit critics, but thats the probleme with random maps, every map must be a winner, you cant let slip some bad maps, or the entire ladder became borring, all of these maps must be good or at least decent.

We must be smart with the maps we choose, not just throwing random map because it look good or its the first ones we see.

Random not really mean random, random mean random in a perfect pool.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2024, 09:24:56 AM by Nox »
Mr.120apm aka U8! Best player of the world losing 4v3 against Phillip5256.

Offline Dudakurten

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2024, 03:32:12 AM »
UPDATES

Completed

*Fixed the situation that all games played were not showing on the ranking

In progress

*Its seems few games still did not count, under investigation
*Map pool update bringing to only 5 maps, only 1 peon starting mode, more friendly maps (keeping gow classic of course)

Notes for future

*To have Mist ranking actually showing in the ladder board in-game (not sure if possible)
*To hides or to move to another place the historical ladder gamers in the website, keeping only the active season
*To to announce the next Season 1 ladder (after this BETA) map pool at least 1 week in advance
*To discuss with community/old players the current tags (GM/ master etc) based on the ladder seasons ou to create new tags

Please keep testing, telling what is looking bad and what we can do to make it better?

Some changes take a bit time, so be patient please.

And for last we are not Blizzard, we are listening and we are trying (please have in mind its impossible to make everyone happy).

Cheers,
Duda
« Last Edit: November 28, 2024, 03:39:06 AM by Dudakurten »

Offline Dudakurten

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2024, 02:58:55 PM »
*FIXED situation were some games not counting to the Mist Ladder.
It was detected everytime the random map was played on Borean Tundra the result did not count due to an error in the code. It was fixed but this map is replaced now. The games happened could not be added manually to the ranking.

*MAP POOL updates following the suggestions to keep the ladder more "map friendly".

All the maps now are played with one peon only starting mode

Borean Tundra - map removed
Bridge to Bridge Combat BNE - removed the archer/troll at starting unit and changed from medium to high resources
Garden of War Classic - no changes
Gold Separates East West - no changes
GoW Cataclysm - map removed
Hexed Valley - map removed
Plains of Snow BNE - map removed
Mine in the Center BNE - map added / high resources
Murky River BNE - map added / low resources

I will edit the current map pool on the topic as soon as possible.

Please let me know if you spot any bug, game non reporting , crash etc.



« Last Edit: November 28, 2024, 03:49:35 PM by Dudakurten »

Offline Dudakurten

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2024, 02:40:05 AM »
1st week thoughts.

26 players
49 games

Still very low participation, but is a start.
Some assumptions:

- fixed bugs and changed maps
- I would say 90% or more don’t even know this exists
- people don’t like 1vs1 competitive
- people don’t like to play other maps (even after the changes to get more friendly, and gow is on the list)

Let’s see how it will go for the second week.

Happy to hear suggestions.

Offline Dudakurten

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Re: LADDER ON - Beta season
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2024, 07:10:07 AM »
Ladder updates:

Change/rework the map pool. Suggested by Equinox and Sthogun.
It was done in the first days.

To announce the maps in advance, before starts the ladder. Suggested by Equinox
Good one. Map pool will be announce 1 week in advance for the next season.

To upgrade size and quality of map pool announcements. Suggested by Equinox
It was done in the first days.

To have only one ladder ongoing in the website. Suggested by Shotgun
In progress. The idea is to remove the old ladder scoreboard keeping only the historical games tab and the scores between players. The current system is like that since 2020 and middle of 2023 we managed to make GOW count in  but the system is old, there is no start/ end seasons etc. Soon should show only new ladder ranking.

To have the ranking numbers in the Mist ladder scoreboard.
In progress

To have the legend, gm and master tags as only rewards and based in each season. Suggested by Equinox
I really liked this idea. I should open a different thread for discussion as might be a sensitive point for the community. If approves, we can apply for the next season, not the beta results.

To not use ELO/MMR system. Suggested by Lance
He has a fair point saying that players can grind points on noobs, which is true.
I disagree and I believe the current system is better. We have mechanics in place to give less and less points based on the ELO gap. Also players are free to play anyone they want. My suggestion is to monitor if it will really happens and which features we can implement.

The old system for example there were good and bad things. For example if you are #1 you can just dodge players…ok you can create some punishment, but it will unlikely have to force people to play.

Also if you are in #1 and you beat the #2 9-0 in a row and you lost the 10th game…he will pass you ..

For the moment we stick to ELO MMR